They are going to produce 20 films and TV series in Mexico annually, so 80 total over 4 years, at an average cost of $12.5 million per piece of content. The same production in the USA would easily run 10x that, maybe more. No brainer to move more production overseas.
This doesn't say anything about moving US production there.
It's presumably mostly Spanish-speaking content for Spanish-speaking audiences.
Yes you can get Vancouver to stand in for New York City. No, you can't get Mexico to stand in for the US in most scenarios.
> No, you can't get Mexico to stand in for the US in most scenarios
I'd disagree. A lot of CDMX, Guadalajara, Monterrey, and Leon looks like a similar if slightly dated version of LA, San Jose, or flatland parts of SF and Oakland - sort of like a 1980s or 1990s kind of aesthetic because of Mexico's economic boom back then.
But this is absolutely about Spanish language content for the Hispanoblante world.
What was their boom based on?
Manufacturing.
Mexico was the original "China". China began booming in the 2000s because Mexico became expensive so a lot of low margins manufacturing left Tijuana and Guadalajara for Tianjin and Guangzhou [0], the same way how you now see manufacturing leaving China for cost reasons having a similar economic impact/shock [1].
It's telling that China only caught up with Mexico's GDP per Capita and HDI around 2019-20, and economic issues similar to those in Mexico in the 2000s (excluding the drug war related ones) began manifesting in China as well.
For example, NPR [2], NYT [3][4], and BBC [5] reports from the early 2000s about Mexico are pretty similar to those you'd hear about China today.
> Tijuana and Guadalajara for Tianjin and Guangzhou
Off-topic kindof but it tickles my brain that the names are similar (Ti~, Gua~)
Haha yep! I chose those cities on purpose. Who doesn't love alliteration.
Or even Toronto. I was surprised to learn Suits was filmed there, despite depicting NYC.
That said, I'm not sure Netflix cares from that regard. They've been pushing me increasingly foreign content that I don't particularly care for, because it's usually dubbed horribly or not at all.
I'm of course not against it existing in their library, but I'd have thought their recommendation engine would realize I'm not at all interested in it by now.
I think the different countries pushing Netflix to make local content has really paid off. Some real good stuff has come out. Like DARK from Germany. Casa de Papel from Spain (though they dragged it out too long). Squid Game from Korea. It's become a lot better since it isn't just Hollywood stuff.
Here in mainland Europe we're more open to content from all kinds of places. I think part of it is because we're used to not being able to understand every language. There's so many here we can never speak them all. Thus subs or dubbing are common things and don't ruin the immersion for us. In English speaking countries (even in Europe) those are often considered weird, alternative or "arthouse".
That's a fair point. As an American, we kinda just expect English by the default. But for the rare movie or show worth watching, I can set that aside. I loved Squid Game. Shame they never made a second season(/s, don't remind me!)
That said most of the time I have the TV on I'm doing something else, and watch/listen in passing, so audio is really important. The dubbing on most movies is so, so bad. 60 year old gruff men sounding like a kid, everyone having the same weird enthusiastic tone, etc. The worst is the distancing, everyone sounds like they're talking directly into a mic despite where the camera is.
I really wish they'd invest more into the dubbing process, a well dubbed movie or show is completely watchable to me. And given the growing corpus of foreign content, I think it's a necessity. It's just so rare I usually don't even bother trying anymore.
Squid game has a second season
Next you'll try to tell us they made more than on Matrix movie
Yeah that's why I prefer subtitles. Dubs are usually very substandard. Though I think AI might change that soon.
Some people find subtitles distracting but where I grew up all foreign content had them (including all English content) and they're just natural to me. I prefer this over dubbing because it never sounds as good as the original voice track.
And keeping the original voice track keeps the original feeling - if something is Japanese it should also sound Japanese to properly immerse you in it, right? But if the TV just runs in the background it doesn't even matter what is running, you won't actually pay attention, don't actually need immersion, so any garbage will do.
That always on-passive TV consumption thing is also not something that most Europeans do.
I'm ok with foreign content, but you mentioned 3 exceptions in an ocean of garbage
The streamers were forced by law [0] to run European productions, so they had to. However the way they do it varies wildly. I appreciate the way Netflix does it - proper subtitles, and absolutely loathe the garbage dubbing Amazon Prime prefers. But to each their own right? And for the content itself, I also find refreshing to watch something less infested with the usual US common places (barfing in comedies, Texans in action flicks...) and maybe also with a closer-to-home flair and themes, so for me as a consumer it's a definite win.
Point remains though, doesnt it? They should shoot more movies in Mexico because it's drastically cheaper.
I think you missed a point. It might be harder to sell Americans on films shot in Mexico because the filming location will not pass as US. So they likely cannot move projects targeting US audiences to Mexico.
However, films targeting Latin + South America audiences might do really well if filmed in Mexico. So the expansion is probably mostly about catering to that market.
To be honest, I don't envy Netflix's position. They release a show, it's culturally relevant for 2-8 weeks, and then they have to release another show to keep the subscriptions active. Traditional television has weekly releases that maintained relevance longer. Movies generate much more revenue per hour on content in theaters, and have long term licensing revenue. Their P/E ratio is higher than other content companies that offer similar streaming services, so shareholders expect revenue growth but their developed world marketshare doesn't have room for growth. So now they are going after new audiences, but they are targeting markets where their subscription fees are way lower, and they'll be on the same hamster wheel of keeping audiences engaged.
How about they planning to sell those productions outside the US? Even for Netflix, not everybody is American and has those requirements. I'm watching a Senegalese police flick so I actually expect and appreciate it happening in Dakar - it's an important part of its world building.
This is pretty simplistic though considering that a lot of TV work can be shot indoors on sound stages and outdoor shots where a recognizably American settings are needed can be shot in the US. There's no reason at all that a show needs to be filmed entirely in one location.
I live in Prague and there's a huge movie industry with lots of American movies being shot on sound stages here. To give one example off the top of my head, all of the Narnia movies were shot here.
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I would expect them to build and staff studios and soundstages down there. Location shooting is expensive wherever you go - this is about getting away from US labor and other costs. They're not the only ones doing it either.
Green screens are international
What are you talking about? You just apply a yellow tinted filter.
Other way around. Mexico naturally has a yellow tint, so you apply a purple hue to cancel it out.
Ah yes, overseas, as in partially across the Gulf of Mexico.
Gulf of where?! /s
Partially across the Gulf of Mexico must mean Texas or something, since its the Gulf of America from the US perspective.
He means "Golfe de Louisiane", obviously.
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Big day for the makers of sepia tone filters.
It's Spanish language content.
The whole sepia filter trope is only in American language content referring to Mexico
I'm assuming that was the joke... ;)
I don't get the joke then.
The article is Netflix is making product X. OP replies "big day for people who make tools to produce product Y". What's the joke?
If Netflix were making English language/targeted content filmed in Mexico the the sepia joke makes sense to me, but not for Spanish targeted. What am I missing?
Fair enough XD
You never know if someone is serious in their replies on here sometimes.
If it means anything, this whole exchange, both in the humor of it and the fantastic display of humanity at the end of it, made me laugh, and then smile.
I appreciate this thread.
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Whoooooosh
Atonement for Emilia Perez
Top actress Carlos Gascón.
Y'all need to get the rights to Chespirito and Chavo Del Ocho on Netflix and stream dat shit to Canada yo! Then I can enjoy my tamales and orchata watching dat shit!
I’m all for more Narcos series, reboot.
But will they all have a sepia tint?
I’m not sure how this comment meets the rules of engaging in meaningful discussion
I don't understand this sepia tint reference. What joke am I missing?
More of a trope about the styling and colour palatte of now classic films set in Mexican territories (but often filmed elsewhere):
Spaghetti westerns were a series of western films pioneered by Sergio Leone in the 70’s mostly starring Clint Eastwood. They have a very specific style to them. Mostly shot on anamorphic widescreen, they developed a language using editing and framing for confrontations between the gunslingers as well as using and updating Akira Kurosawa’s style. A lot of them are straight up remakes of Kurosawa films (A fistful of dollars is Yojimbo, Magnificent 7 is 7 samurai).
The films had a bit of a sepia look to them but that mostly came from the art direction and the wide open desert spaces they shot at. They would use a handful of shots from the west here and there but most of them were actually shot in southern Spain with Italian and Spanish crews.
Widescreen aspect ratio, tight closeups (chin to eyebrows), quick cuts timed to the music (provided by the great Enio Moricone).
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly is seen as the masterpiece of the series (known as the man with no name series). Another major one is Once Upon a Time in the West. Tareantino is heavily influenced by this stayle and pays direct homage to him on both Kill Bill Vol 2 and Hateful 8. This might be able to give you a slightly more modernized rendition of Leone’s style.
but you can find similar comments across many film boards.
Eh... just watch Breaking Bad and pay attention to all the scenes taking place in Mexico. You'll get the point. It hits as hard as the green tint in the Matrix movies when they are in the Matrix. They might as well all be Simpsons characters.
...So, do they need any American software engineers to work in Mexico who want to spend about four years outside of the United States for reasons that will not be enumerated. Asking for a friend.
Only if your friend is willing to get paid a local salary ;)
Oh he's not going to like that.
Entry-level total comp at Google Mexico is about 80k USD, which is comparable to 180k in local purchasing power.
[Edit] on second glance, my original datapoint for Google was questionable, but it looks like Lyft/Amazon definitely gives offers in the 50k-70k USD range.
But that's Google, they'd be hiring the top engineers there. What's the average for an average engineer, half that?
They offered me a job in the past so they definitely hire middling engineers.
Netflix would also pay well, surely.
If that number is even real, so few people are making it that it's not even worth mentioning.
Search "sueldo ingeniero Google Mexico" and you see wages like $30k USD which is already +$10k over the Mexico average for software, so way more realistic.
wtf that's barely less than Canada? and significantly more on a purchasing power basis.
How do I move to Mexico?
This is the absolute top of the top, domestic tech in Mexico pays pretty poorly. Google (as of last year) also let people transfer from high COL to lower COL, reduce their base, but keep the original RSU contract, which will probably skew reported compensation.
Domestic tech in Canada also pays significantly less. Entry-level for some banks is like US$50-60k
Same here in Spain. You need to be with a multinational. Local companies pay shit.
It's the same in all of Europe. You need to work for international big-tech to make decent money, which is also very competitive in terms of job applications. Domestic SW shops pay shit.
That salary is actually below the minimum income for permanent residency (but above the 4 yr temporary residency threshold). If you want to stay beyond 4 years, you'll need to either pony up for a sufficiently expensive house or show $300k usd in a bank account over the past year.
Can you give an idea of how much I'd have to spend on a house? And also what I'd get for that money?
Mexico's immigration policies are deliberately designed to exclude most people who aren't wealthy retirees and don't have familial ties.
Those properties are beautiful! I can get a beachfront villa for practically nothing. In Canada something that close to the water would be several million dollars despite not even having a tropical climate.
What is Mexico's visa policy w.r.t. NAFTA/CUSMA professionals? Can I just get in temporarily as a software engineer akin to TN-1 in the USA?
Mexico City is more expensive than you think. Doubly so if you want to maintain the standard of living that you are used to in USA/Canada.
Polanco, a neighborhood in Mexico City, has homes that sell for prices that you'd expect from Malibu, CA or Atherton.
That’s really interesting to think about. I had seen a list of the most expensive streets and Polanco is home to one of those (the commercial Avenida Presidente Masaryk) and Atherton is on the list too (the residential Walsh Road).
It’s also the biggest city on the continent so it stands to region the range in CoL might be huge.
But that's also because the richest people aren't so affected by low cost of living. Prices temd to be based on what people can afford. And those neighbourhoods tend to be for the top 0.1%
Though that's not a good example since you're just pointing out where the richest people live in Mexico City.
It reveals nothing about the CoL of the city.
What is the salary? I bet it's in my range but I'm in the USA.
Average software dev salaries in major Mexican metros are around 30,000 to 45,000 MXN per month. So around $2,000 USD a month.
Which is a lot, at least in terms or how much you can buy. Mexico is really cheap, compared to USA.
The thing with purchasing power is that it doesn't apply to everything. In particular foreign goods.
So while low cost of living countries offset their low wages with cheaper housing, food and local services, imported stuff still costs the same and is relatively expensive as a result. Basically in those countries it really sucks to buy a computer, camera, even cars.
I spent two weeks in Juarez a few years ago for my wife's visa stuff. The hotel was pretty cheap, the food was pretty cheap (and delicious!), but I was surprised to see that an Xbox was actually more expensive than it was in NYC.
It makes enough sense, Microsoft isn't a charity, they're selling the console at a fairly competitive price already in the US, it's not going going to magically get cheaper just because it crossed a border, but it was still surprising to see that.
Microsoft also knows that if they sell xbox's for less overseas people will start buying those cheap ones and importing them to the US for resale.
That makes sense, and not really theoretical; it's pretty easy to buy Blu-rays and DVDs from foreign markets, and they're often considerably cheaper than their American versions.
They of course are region encoded, but I suspect nearly anyone who frequents Hacker News knows how to get around that.
It is a hit on your retirement savings if you intend to return to a more expensive country.
The only thing that makes it "a lot" is how pathetic the wages are in Mexico compared to it. But you aren't living large in Guadalajara on $20k/year.
Only some things are particularly cheap in Mexico like labor and anything where labor is the main input, like services.
And some things that you'd think would be in reach of a Mexican software developer, like sending your kids to a decent private school, are not.
What's the cost of living and healthcare like?
If you're upset about the deterioration of rule of law under Trump, I have some bad news for you about Mexico.
It doesn’t look like this is a software engineering play but instead they want to make more content instead in Mexico .
You might not return after a 4 yr extended stay, to be honest.
Or NFLX ends up going bottom of the barrel contractors to replace
Aah yes the treasured American pastime of pretending you're going to leave when the Other Team wins the presidency.
My wife is a Mexican immigrant. I was joking a bit, but not completely, I do have to think about the possibility that this stupid administration decides to ramp up their deportation efforts even more.
[dead]
I mean there are plenty of US embassies in Mexico, so not impossible to do.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Also, there one US embassy in Mexico, and multiple local consulates.
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Pretty sure if women find you gross in America, they will find you gross in Mexico.
Maybe, but I don't live in the USA and have no idea whether women there find me gross.
Pretty sure if women find you gross in the country you live in, they will find you gross in Mexico
There’s about to be drone strikes out there so thats a no for me dawg
Maybe Roma Norte will be cool but thats it
US drones/aircraft have been flying over Mexico for ~15yrs and CIA also started flying them there under Biden admin at the request of Mexican gov. I'm skeptical Mexico would start using offensive drones though, they prefer helicopters for operations.
But these will be drones with missiles launched by DoD unilaterally
Not without Mexico's consent. Unless you think they would commit an act a war against Mexico... to fight cartels or something? Even Obama's drone strikes in Yemen was under approval of the Yemen gov, it's a very serious thing to do.
the new list just dropped, all the cartels are on it and listed as terror organizations
the US also has a history of ignoring sovereignty and saying the strikes weren't against the government, just the non-state terror organization
I also believe the US can coerce "consent" from a sovereign, if its more convenient to check that box
so like I wrote earlier, the gentrified parts of CDMX will be fine
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Do you really think we didn’t hit civilians during Trump’s presidency?
> During Mr Obama's eight years in office, 1,878 drone strikes were carried out, according to researchers. Since Mr Trump was elected in 2016, there have been 2,243 drone strikes. The Republican president has also made some of the operations, the ones outside of war zones, more secretive. As a result, things have different today: under Mr Trump, there are more drone strikes - and less transparency.
It matters what you hit, not how much.
Note how you didn't have any specific events of Trump hitting civilians to cite.
> Civilian deaths skyrocketed in Afghanistan under President Donald Trump, whose administration relaxed the rules of engagement for airstrikes in 2017, according to a new study from the Costs of War Project at Brown University.
> Airstrikes killed 700 civilians in Afghanistan in 2019 alone, more than any other year since the early days of the war in 2002, according to the study. "There were more weapons dropped from the air in 2018 and 2019 than at the height of US presence in Afghanistan in 2011," the report stated.
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So by "It matters what you hit, not how much" you actually meant "it matters how publicly covered by the American media (which I also call 'fake news' when they do)", not "it matters what you hit"?
I'm sure the thousands of civilians killed by Trump's strikes are grateful they didn't make the New York Times.
[dead]
“Hmm, who else should we demoralise? Let’s go for the Mexicans!”
They are going to produce 20 films and TV series in Mexico annually, so 80 total over 4 years, at an average cost of $12.5 million per piece of content. The same production in the USA would easily run 10x that, maybe more. No brainer to move more production overseas.
This doesn't say anything about moving US production there.
It's presumably mostly Spanish-speaking content for Spanish-speaking audiences.
Yes you can get Vancouver to stand in for New York City. No, you can't get Mexico to stand in for the US in most scenarios.
> No, you can't get Mexico to stand in for the US in most scenarios
I'd disagree. A lot of CDMX, Guadalajara, Monterrey, and Leon looks like a similar if slightly dated version of LA, San Jose, or flatland parts of SF and Oakland - sort of like a 1980s or 1990s kind of aesthetic because of Mexico's economic boom back then.
But this is absolutely about Spanish language content for the Hispanoblante world.
What was their boom based on?
Manufacturing.
Mexico was the original "China". China began booming in the 2000s because Mexico became expensive so a lot of low margins manufacturing left Tijuana and Guadalajara for Tianjin and Guangzhou [0], the same way how you now see manufacturing leaving China for cost reasons having a similar economic impact/shock [1].
It's telling that China only caught up with Mexico's GDP per Capita and HDI around 2019-20, and economic issues similar to those in Mexico in the 2000s (excluding the drug war related ones) began manifesting in China as well.
For example, NPR [2], NYT [3][4], and BBC [5] reports from the early 2000s about Mexico are pretty similar to those you'd hear about China today.
History doesn't repeat but it sure does rhyme.
[0] - http://international-economy.com/TIE_Sp03_Rosen.pdf
[1] - https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/cfer-2024-002...
[2] - https://www.npr.org/2003/12/22/1556267/mexican-economy-strug...
[3] - https://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/20/business/mexico-s-jobless...
[4] - https://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/16/business/mexico-misses-gr...
[5] - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/812893.stm
> Tijuana and Guadalajara for Tianjin and Guangzhou
Off-topic kindof but it tickles my brain that the names are similar (Ti~, Gua~)
Haha yep! I chose those cities on purpose. Who doesn't love alliteration.
Or even Toronto. I was surprised to learn Suits was filmed there, despite depicting NYC.
That said, I'm not sure Netflix cares from that regard. They've been pushing me increasingly foreign content that I don't particularly care for, because it's usually dubbed horribly or not at all.
I'm of course not against it existing in their library, but I'd have thought their recommendation engine would realize I'm not at all interested in it by now.
I think the different countries pushing Netflix to make local content has really paid off. Some real good stuff has come out. Like DARK from Germany. Casa de Papel from Spain (though they dragged it out too long). Squid Game from Korea. It's become a lot better since it isn't just Hollywood stuff.
Here in mainland Europe we're more open to content from all kinds of places. I think part of it is because we're used to not being able to understand every language. There's so many here we can never speak them all. Thus subs or dubbing are common things and don't ruin the immersion for us. In English speaking countries (even in Europe) those are often considered weird, alternative or "arthouse".
That's a fair point. As an American, we kinda just expect English by the default. But for the rare movie or show worth watching, I can set that aside. I loved Squid Game. Shame they never made a second season(/s, don't remind me!)
That said most of the time I have the TV on I'm doing something else, and watch/listen in passing, so audio is really important. The dubbing on most movies is so, so bad. 60 year old gruff men sounding like a kid, everyone having the same weird enthusiastic tone, etc. The worst is the distancing, everyone sounds like they're talking directly into a mic despite where the camera is.
I really wish they'd invest more into the dubbing process, a well dubbed movie or show is completely watchable to me. And given the growing corpus of foreign content, I think it's a necessity. It's just so rare I usually don't even bother trying anymore.
Squid game has a second season
Next you'll try to tell us they made more than on Matrix movie
Yeah that's why I prefer subtitles. Dubs are usually very substandard. Though I think AI might change that soon.
Some people find subtitles distracting but where I grew up all foreign content had them (including all English content) and they're just natural to me. I prefer this over dubbing because it never sounds as good as the original voice track.
And keeping the original voice track keeps the original feeling - if something is Japanese it should also sound Japanese to properly immerse you in it, right? But if the TV just runs in the background it doesn't even matter what is running, you won't actually pay attention, don't actually need immersion, so any garbage will do.
That always on-passive TV consumption thing is also not something that most Europeans do.
I'm ok with foreign content, but you mentioned 3 exceptions in an ocean of garbage
The streamers were forced by law [0] to run European productions, so they had to. However the way they do it varies wildly. I appreciate the way Netflix does it - proper subtitles, and absolutely loathe the garbage dubbing Amazon Prime prefers. But to each their own right? And for the content itself, I also find refreshing to watch something less infested with the usual US common places (barfing in comedies, Texans in action flicks...) and maybe also with a closer-to-home flair and themes, so for me as a consumer it's a definite win.
[0] https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/european-w...
Alice in Boardland
Point remains though, doesnt it? They should shoot more movies in Mexico because it's drastically cheaper.
I think you missed a point. It might be harder to sell Americans on films shot in Mexico because the filming location will not pass as US. So they likely cannot move projects targeting US audiences to Mexico.
However, films targeting Latin + South America audiences might do really well if filmed in Mexico. So the expansion is probably mostly about catering to that market.
To be honest, I don't envy Netflix's position. They release a show, it's culturally relevant for 2-8 weeks, and then they have to release another show to keep the subscriptions active. Traditional television has weekly releases that maintained relevance longer. Movies generate much more revenue per hour on content in theaters, and have long term licensing revenue. Their P/E ratio is higher than other content companies that offer similar streaming services, so shareholders expect revenue growth but their developed world marketshare doesn't have room for growth. So now they are going after new audiences, but they are targeting markets where their subscription fees are way lower, and they'll be on the same hamster wheel of keeping audiences engaged.
How about they planning to sell those productions outside the US? Even for Netflix, not everybody is American and has those requirements. I'm watching a Senegalese police flick so I actually expect and appreciate it happening in Dakar - it's an important part of its world building.
This is pretty simplistic though considering that a lot of TV work can be shot indoors on sound stages and outdoor shots where a recognizably American settings are needed can be shot in the US. There's no reason at all that a show needs to be filmed entirely in one location.
I live in Prague and there's a huge movie industry with lots of American movies being shot on sound stages here. To give one example off the top of my head, all of the Narnia movies were shot here.
I would expect them to build and staff studios and soundstages down there. Location shooting is expensive wherever you go - this is about getting away from US labor and other costs. They're not the only ones doing it either.
Green screens are international
What are you talking about? You just apply a yellow tinted filter.
Other way around. Mexico naturally has a yellow tint, so you apply a purple hue to cancel it out.
Ah yes, overseas, as in partially across the Gulf of Mexico.
Gulf of where?! /s
Partially across the Gulf of Mexico must mean Texas or something, since its the Gulf of America from the US perspective.
He means "Golfe de Louisiane", obviously.
Big day for the makers of sepia tone filters.
It's Spanish language content.
The whole sepia filter trope is only in American language content referring to Mexico
I'm assuming that was the joke... ;)
I don't get the joke then.
The article is Netflix is making product X. OP replies "big day for people who make tools to produce product Y". What's the joke?
If Netflix were making English language/targeted content filmed in Mexico the the sepia joke makes sense to me, but not for Spanish targeted. What am I missing?
Fair enough XD
You never know if someone is serious in their replies on here sometimes.
If it means anything, this whole exchange, both in the humor of it and the fantastic display of humanity at the end of it, made me laugh, and then smile.
I appreciate this thread.
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Whoooooosh
Atonement for Emilia Perez
Top actress Carlos Gascón.
Y'all need to get the rights to Chespirito and Chavo Del Ocho on Netflix and stream dat shit to Canada yo! Then I can enjoy my tamales and orchata watching dat shit!
I’m all for more Narcos series, reboot.
But will they all have a sepia tint?
I’m not sure how this comment meets the rules of engaging in meaningful discussion
I don't understand this sepia tint reference. What joke am I missing?
More of a trope about the styling and colour palatte of now classic films set in Mexican territories (but often filmed elsewhere):
from: https://old.reddit.com/r/colorists/comments/rs7igu/spaghetti...but you can find similar comments across many film boards.
Eh... just watch Breaking Bad and pay attention to all the scenes taking place in Mexico. You'll get the point. It hits as hard as the green tint in the Matrix movies when they are in the Matrix. They might as well all be Simpsons characters.
...So, do they need any American software engineers to work in Mexico who want to spend about four years outside of the United States for reasons that will not be enumerated. Asking for a friend.
Only if your friend is willing to get paid a local salary ;)
Oh he's not going to like that.
Entry-level total comp at Google Mexico is about 80k USD, which is comparable to 180k in local purchasing power.
[Edit] on second glance, my original datapoint for Google was questionable, but it looks like Lyft/Amazon definitely gives offers in the 50k-70k USD range.
But that's Google, they'd be hiring the top engineers there. What's the average for an average engineer, half that?
They offered me a job in the past so they definitely hire middling engineers.
Netflix would also pay well, surely.
If that number is even real, so few people are making it that it's not even worth mentioning.
Search "sueldo ingeniero Google Mexico" and you see wages like $30k USD which is already +$10k over the Mexico average for software, so way more realistic.
wtf that's barely less than Canada? and significantly more on a purchasing power basis.
How do I move to Mexico?
This is the absolute top of the top, domestic tech in Mexico pays pretty poorly. Google (as of last year) also let people transfer from high COL to lower COL, reduce their base, but keep the original RSU contract, which will probably skew reported compensation.
Domestic tech in Canada also pays significantly less. Entry-level for some banks is like US$50-60k
Same here in Spain. You need to be with a multinational. Local companies pay shit.
It's the same in all of Europe. You need to work for international big-tech to make decent money, which is also very competitive in terms of job applications. Domestic SW shops pay shit.
That salary is actually below the minimum income for permanent residency (but above the 4 yr temporary residency threshold). If you want to stay beyond 4 years, you'll need to either pony up for a sufficiently expensive house or show $300k usd in a bank account over the past year.
Can you give an idea of how much I'd have to spend on a house? And also what I'd get for that money?
Twice the amount of the bank account, ~$600k USD. Here's a reasonable selection of houses for that price marketed to foreigners: https://www.sothebysrealty.com/eng/sales/mex/price-low-sort/...
Mexico's immigration policies are deliberately designed to exclude most people who aren't wealthy retirees and don't have familial ties.
Those properties are beautiful! I can get a beachfront villa for practically nothing. In Canada something that close to the water would be several million dollars despite not even having a tropical climate.
What is Mexico's visa policy w.r.t. NAFTA/CUSMA professionals? Can I just get in temporarily as a software engineer akin to TN-1 in the USA?
Mexico City is more expensive than you think. Doubly so if you want to maintain the standard of living that you are used to in USA/Canada.
Polanco, a neighborhood in Mexico City, has homes that sell for prices that you'd expect from Malibu, CA or Atherton.
That’s really interesting to think about. I had seen a list of the most expensive streets and Polanco is home to one of those (the commercial Avenida Presidente Masaryk) and Atherton is on the list too (the residential Walsh Road).
It’s also the biggest city on the continent so it stands to region the range in CoL might be huge.
But that's also because the richest people aren't so affected by low cost of living. Prices temd to be based on what people can afford. And those neighbourhoods tend to be for the top 0.1%
Though that's not a good example since you're just pointing out where the richest people live in Mexico City.
It reveals nothing about the CoL of the city.
What is the salary? I bet it's in my range but I'm in the USA.
Average software dev salaries in major Mexican metros are around 30,000 to 45,000 MXN per month. So around $2,000 USD a month.
Which is a lot, at least in terms or how much you can buy. Mexico is really cheap, compared to USA.
The thing with purchasing power is that it doesn't apply to everything. In particular foreign goods.
So while low cost of living countries offset their low wages with cheaper housing, food and local services, imported stuff still costs the same and is relatively expensive as a result. Basically in those countries it really sucks to buy a computer, camera, even cars.
I spent two weeks in Juarez a few years ago for my wife's visa stuff. The hotel was pretty cheap, the food was pretty cheap (and delicious!), but I was surprised to see that an Xbox was actually more expensive than it was in NYC.
It makes enough sense, Microsoft isn't a charity, they're selling the console at a fairly competitive price already in the US, it's not going going to magically get cheaper just because it crossed a border, but it was still surprising to see that.
Microsoft also knows that if they sell xbox's for less overseas people will start buying those cheap ones and importing them to the US for resale.
That makes sense, and not really theoretical; it's pretty easy to buy Blu-rays and DVDs from foreign markets, and they're often considerably cheaper than their American versions.
They of course are region encoded, but I suspect nearly anyone who frequents Hacker News knows how to get around that.
It is a hit on your retirement savings if you intend to return to a more expensive country.
The only thing that makes it "a lot" is how pathetic the wages are in Mexico compared to it. But you aren't living large in Guadalajara on $20k/year.
Only some things are particularly cheap in Mexico like labor and anything where labor is the main input, like services.
And some things that you'd think would be in reach of a Mexican software developer, like sending your kids to a decent private school, are not.
What's the cost of living and healthcare like?
If you're upset about the deterioration of rule of law under Trump, I have some bad news for you about Mexico.
It doesn’t look like this is a software engineering play but instead they want to make more content instead in Mexico .
You might not return after a 4 yr extended stay, to be honest.
Or NFLX ends up going bottom of the barrel contractors to replace
Aah yes the treasured American pastime of pretending you're going to leave when the Other Team wins the presidency.
My wife is a Mexican immigrant. I was joking a bit, but not completely, I do have to think about the possibility that this stupid administration decides to ramp up their deportation efforts even more.
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I mean there are plenty of US embassies in Mexico, so not impossible to do.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Also, there one US embassy in Mexico, and multiple local consulates.
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Pretty sure if women find you gross in America, they will find you gross in Mexico.
Maybe, but I don't live in the USA and have no idea whether women there find me gross.
Pretty sure if women find you gross in the country you live in, they will find you gross in Mexico
There’s about to be drone strikes out there so thats a no for me dawg
Maybe Roma Norte will be cool but thats it
US drones/aircraft have been flying over Mexico for ~15yrs and CIA also started flying them there under Biden admin at the request of Mexican gov. I'm skeptical Mexico would start using offensive drones though, they prefer helicopters for operations.
But these will be drones with missiles launched by DoD unilaterally
Not without Mexico's consent. Unless you think they would commit an act a war against Mexico... to fight cartels or something? Even Obama's drone strikes in Yemen was under approval of the Yemen gov, it's a very serious thing to do.
the new list just dropped, all the cartels are on it and listed as terror organizations
the US also has a history of ignoring sovereignty and saying the strikes weren't against the government, just the non-state terror organization
I also believe the US can coerce "consent" from a sovereign, if its more convenient to check that box
so like I wrote earlier, the gentrified parts of CDMX will be fine
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Do you really think we didn’t hit civilians during Trump’s presidency?
He did loads more drone strikes than Obama. We just stopped counting the civilians. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207.amp
> During Mr Obama's eight years in office, 1,878 drone strikes were carried out, according to researchers. Since Mr Trump was elected in 2016, there have been 2,243 drone strikes. The Republican president has also made some of the operations, the ones outside of war zones, more secretive. As a result, things have different today: under Mr Trump, there are more drone strikes - and less transparency.
It matters what you hit, not how much.
Note how you didn't have any specific events of Trump hitting civilians to cite.
https://www.hrw.org/report/2014/02/19/wedding-became-funeral...
It does, indeed.
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-afghanistan-airstrikes...
> Civilian deaths skyrocketed in Afghanistan under President Donald Trump, whose administration relaxed the rules of engagement for airstrikes in 2017, according to a new study from the Costs of War Project at Brown University.
> Airstrikes killed 700 civilians in Afghanistan in 2019 alone, more than any other year since the early days of the war in 2002, according to the study. "There were more weapons dropped from the air in 2018 and 2019 than at the height of US presence in Afghanistan in 2011," the report stated.
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So by "It matters what you hit, not how much" you actually meant "it matters how publicly covered by the American media (which I also call 'fake news' when they do)", not "it matters what you hit"?
I'm sure the thousands of civilians killed by Trump's strikes are grateful they didn't make the New York Times.
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“Hmm, who else should we demoralise? Let’s go for the Mexicans!”