Before going to secede, Alberta should do what Quebec has done and "practise" being a country: collect its own taxes, run its own police, run its own retirement system, control provincial immigration, ... This will give them a better idea what will be required to go it alone, and test whether their low-tax haven will survive leaving Canada.
won't happen but the point is to reset the balance of power
basically Alberta will be like Glenn Close from Fatal Attraction: "You can't ignore me!"
but Americans also tend to underestimate or disbelieve that right-wing sentiment exists in Canada
most Americans think Canada is like Berkeley on a continent-scale...Justin Trudeau believed that too and he was reviled eventually
People underestimate the anger that has festered in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and parts of BC due to Pierre Trudeau's National Energy Program [0]. It caused a severe recession across western Canada back in the 80s and 90s leading to the Reform Party movement (a proto-MAGA movement), and that resentment has festered.
Secession is a pipe dream, but do not underestimate the anger and conservatism in Western Canada outside of Greater Vancouver, Nanaimo, Victoria, Kelwona, and a couple other islands of liberalism in a sea of conservatism - there's no cultural or social difference between Abbotsford and Bellingham, or Lethbridge and Great Falls. Western Canada's resource-driven economy also plays a major role in this.
At least Carney grew up in Alberta during that era, so he can probably avoid the misteps that Justin Trudeau and his father did when dealing with Western Canada.
High school graduation and literacy rates are very low through much of rural Alberta. They are the witless and gullible victims of motivated messaging from the oil industry who has been spoon-feeding them their narrative for a long time.
This kind of elitist crap is why people get pissed and feel like burning s**.
Rural Canada was fairly poor back in the day, but being poor doesn't mean you are gullible or some "aw shucks" ingnoramus.
For someone with a partial high school education an Oil job was the only job that would afford them the kind of salary a UT or McGill grad could demand in Toronto or Montreal back in the day.
If you turn a culture war into a class war, us liberals and progressives cannot win.
> This kind of elitist crap is why people get pissed and feel like burning s*.
Bull. The right gets angry no matter what. They always have a reason, even if it has to be fabricated. It's Friday? The right must be outraged.
[deleted]
You're confused, this is Alberta. The gullible ignoramus' who didn't finish high school are also the elites. Some of these people are my family members, they are not underpriveleged, they are on drugs. Either way their victim complex is preyed upon by an industry that has been working to undermine Canadian unity for decades.
[deleted]
While I agree with your general statement here, are you saying that Abbotsford and Bellingham are both conservative towns? Greater Whatcom county, certainly, but Bellingham is a very liberal city.
Political leaning aside I agree that Western BC and Western WA are nigh identical culturally. Can't speak for anything further east as I don't live there.
I mean Whatcom county!
Bellingham may have changed over the past few years - last time I spent a significant amount of time there was in the 2000s.
At least on the BC side, other than Nanaimo, the others haven't really shifted from conservative to liberal.
Let's not forget the Salmon Arm salute :-)
Heh. That was a bit before my time, but I spent a couple years in a rust (wood?) belt town in BC as a kid, and the anger and resentment was palpable even then.
The kind of populist anti-business and anti-establishment anger I saw amongst the Reform guys was the exact same as that which I saw among MAGA all the way back in 2015.
I think Canadians (in reality Ontarians and Quebeckers - but not like they could read English anyhow /s) really underestimate the MAGA style populist alt-right trend.
Stuff like Rebel News was always in the water back west.
It's the exact same type of right-wing I see across NorCal (real NorCal starts north of Yuba), Oregon, Washington, Idaho, and Montana.
> People underestimate the anger ...
I hear the right wing say that over and over. Anger is a cheap negotiating ploy, an attempt at intimidation, a "a license to be stupid" [0] (if people cede it to you). It's a choice to act like a child and have zero personal responsibility - because you're angry! Eff your anger - I'm angry too. I'm angry about seeing people suffer for your self-centered, childish, irresponsible BS.
> he can probably avoid the misteps
No he can't, because there is no misstep. They will find a reason to be angry no matter what, even if they have to make things up. Anger is the point.
https://archive.ph/cIwx6
Before going to secede, Alberta should do what Quebec has done and "practise" being a country: collect its own taxes, run its own police, run its own retirement system, control provincial immigration, ... This will give them a better idea what will be required to go it alone, and test whether their low-tax haven will survive leaving Canada.
won't happen but the point is to reset the balance of power
basically Alberta will be like Glenn Close from Fatal Attraction: "You can't ignore me!"
but Americans also tend to underestimate or disbelieve that right-wing sentiment exists in Canada
most Americans think Canada is like Berkeley on a continent-scale...Justin Trudeau believed that too and he was reviled eventually
People underestimate the anger that has festered in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and parts of BC due to Pierre Trudeau's National Energy Program [0]. It caused a severe recession across western Canada back in the 80s and 90s leading to the Reform Party movement (a proto-MAGA movement), and that resentment has festered.
Secession is a pipe dream, but do not underestimate the anger and conservatism in Western Canada outside of Greater Vancouver, Nanaimo, Victoria, Kelwona, and a couple other islands of liberalism in a sea of conservatism - there's no cultural or social difference between Abbotsford and Bellingham, or Lethbridge and Great Falls. Western Canada's resource-driven economy also plays a major role in this.
At least Carney grew up in Alberta during that era, so he can probably avoid the misteps that Justin Trudeau and his father did when dealing with Western Canada.
[0] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Energy_Program
High school graduation and literacy rates are very low through much of rural Alberta. They are the witless and gullible victims of motivated messaging from the oil industry who has been spoon-feeding them their narrative for a long time.
This kind of elitist crap is why people get pissed and feel like burning s**.
Rural Canada was fairly poor back in the day, but being poor doesn't mean you are gullible or some "aw shucks" ingnoramus.
For someone with a partial high school education an Oil job was the only job that would afford them the kind of salary a UT or McGill grad could demand in Toronto or Montreal back in the day.
If you turn a culture war into a class war, us liberals and progressives cannot win.
> This kind of elitist crap is why people get pissed and feel like burning s*.
Bull. The right gets angry no matter what. They always have a reason, even if it has to be fabricated. It's Friday? The right must be outraged.
You're confused, this is Alberta. The gullible ignoramus' who didn't finish high school are also the elites. Some of these people are my family members, they are not underpriveleged, they are on drugs. Either way their victim complex is preyed upon by an industry that has been working to undermine Canadian unity for decades.
While I agree with your general statement here, are you saying that Abbotsford and Bellingham are both conservative towns? Greater Whatcom county, certainly, but Bellingham is a very liberal city.
Political leaning aside I agree that Western BC and Western WA are nigh identical culturally. Can't speak for anything further east as I don't live there.
I mean Whatcom county!
Bellingham may have changed over the past few years - last time I spent a significant amount of time there was in the 2000s.
At least on the BC side, other than Nanaimo, the others haven't really shifted from conservative to liberal.
Let's not forget the Salmon Arm salute :-)
Heh. That was a bit before my time, but I spent a couple years in a rust (wood?) belt town in BC as a kid, and the anger and resentment was palpable even then.
The kind of populist anti-business and anti-establishment anger I saw amongst the Reform guys was the exact same as that which I saw among MAGA all the way back in 2015.
I think Canadians (in reality Ontarians and Quebeckers - but not like they could read English anyhow /s) really underestimate the MAGA style populist alt-right trend.
Stuff like Rebel News was always in the water back west.
It's the exact same type of right-wing I see across NorCal (real NorCal starts north of Yuba), Oregon, Washington, Idaho, and Montana.
> People underestimate the anger ...
I hear the right wing say that over and over. Anger is a cheap negotiating ploy, an attempt at intimidation, a "a license to be stupid" [0] (if people cede it to you). It's a choice to act like a child and have zero personal responsibility - because you're angry! Eff your anger - I'm angry too. I'm angry about seeing people suffer for your self-centered, childish, irresponsible BS.
> he can probably avoid the misteps
No he can't, because there is no misstep. They will find a reason to be angry no matter what, even if they have to make things up. Anger is the point.
[0] Doc Searles and David Weinberger