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KORG phase8 – Acoustic Synthesizer

Pretty sick demo here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFNQoekyGAs

at 6:20 he's showing how placing different objects on the resonators changes their tone.

I want this so bad.

5 hours agoChipopLeMoral

Just a bit later in the video he shows using his finger to change the pitch of the resonator on the right as well. I'm often a bit sceptical of "gimmicky" instruments (what's that synth with all the rotors inside that makes a noise a bit like a vacuum cleaner when you use it? but, I have to say, the Phase 8 does sound really cool and, just as important, looks really fun to use as well.

Be interested to see how long it takes before Florian gets his hands on one to review for Bad Gear though.

3 hours agobartread

Yeah, it's not just the novelty aspect, I genuinely like how it sounds and how it opens up new ways to be creative with sound making. I'd really like to hear what Radiohead or Bjork would make with something like that.

3 hours agoChipopLeMoral

Or Daft Punk, if they didn't decide to not punk together anymore.

Maybe Venus Theory can run it through its paces as well.

2 hours agobayindirh

> (what's that synth with all the rotors inside that makes a noise a bit like a vacuum cleaner when you use it?

Motor Synth: https://gamechangeraudio.com/motor-synth/

Agreed the Phase8 is a neat synth. Basically like a Rhodes and a EBow had a baby.

2 hours agomunificent

> he's showing how placing different objects on the resonators changes their tone

"Have you ever thought re-patching your modular synth was too easy? Here, now your drum machine can be even harder to recreate the sound you liked last week!"

A joke, but was immediately what jumped out as scary. Not gonna lie, looks like a fun machine, but for that money, I tend to buy stuff I can use and recall old patches with. Although except for the modular obviously :/

4 hours agoembedding-shape

You nailed it. Cool idea. Nice design. Great demo. Fun toy.

I'm sure I'd have a good time playing with it for an afternoon and come up with some sounds I like. And, in principle, I'm all for more ways to create music existing - especially ones which are interactive and tactile. But the reality is, if I bought this device it would end up spending most of its time in the basement graveyard with all the other cool tools that are too narrow, too big, too hard to interface, store/recall patches, etc.

I decided several years ago to refocus on a stack that's purely microphone (or other a/d converted input) + MIDI controllers to a DAW driving infinite layers of internal real-time digital synthesis, analog modeling and effects plug-ins. There are fabulously expressive MPE (MIDI Polyphonic Expression) controllers now which can capture every nuance of input my hands, feet and breath could ever provide. As you highlighted, the feeling that creating in a digital audio workstation is "too easy" or maybe somehow 'soulless' - is all in my head. That lurking suspicion analog circuitry or electro-mechanical waveforms are more authentic or pure is just magical thinking.

Always believing that the next new box's cool-looking tactile input, novel interaction model or unique set of opinionated constraints will unleash my creativity - is just getting in the way of actually sitting down and making myself create with all the insanely powerful, wildly creative, infinitely flexible, hyper-productive digital tools I already have. Being able to save and recall entire racks worth of patching at the press of a button isn't soulless or limiting - unless I let it be. Feeling like I need just-one-more new device to inspire me with its defaults or constrain me with its limits - is the limiting constraint I finally realized was holding me back.

39 minutes agomrandish
[deleted]
an hour ago

What an insightful comment. I've always considered art as something that can't be recreated, as it involves the state of mind the creator was at the time of creating it. I would worry no more about recreating a sound on this synth as I would recreating the exact pitch of an acoustic guitar I made last year.

Your take is obviously a valid one though. I just find it infinitely interesting how there can be so many valid viewpoints about something like this.

2 hours agoTheCraiggers

There are forms of art where the "meta" is that the artists are attempting to recreate something exactly the same each time, but in doing so there is always something different (theater, live music, etc). Some art leans towards perfection in recreation and some leans towards the unique.

Professionals are usually good at doing both.

7 minutes agoduped

That is how many synth users feel as well, that they don't need presets because they'll just create a new sound. Neither approach is invalid as there is no right or wrong way to be creative.

an hour agomobiledev2014

You can change the actual resonator shape (it says it comes with 3 different shapes) to affect their sound. Like actually unscrew them and screw different ones on. Since this is just a piece of metal I see endless hacking opportunities here.

4 hours agoChipopLeMoral

Looks really interesting, no doubt. But I also see that you can change the sound by just placing objects on top of the resonators, so I'm guessing if I was jamming with that, I'd try placing my hand, foot, head and a bunch of other stuff on top of the resonators. Probably find some neat sounds.

Then next week I'm gonna have zero ideas about how to recreate it again :P Already suffering with this with the modular synth, and those are just cables in specific holes.

4 hours agoembedding-shape

It just another way to do something that a lot of these tone generators can do already, i'm not seeing the appeal other than to have some quick fun with sounds.

2 hours agom3kw9
[deleted]
an hour ago

Has that always been the appeal?

2 hours agoranguna

Years ago I used to make things like this, I discovered sites like 120 years of Electronic Music[0] and the Experimental Musical Instruments Journal[1] which my local library bizarrely had and went to town. Spent a lot of time digging through the local surplus shop that was a goldmine for cheap stuff for such things. The last project I started in on was a tuning fork organ, made my own tuning forks and coils and pickups to drive them, had big dreams with it but only ended up making about an octave worth, which I had great fun with. Most of these random instruments I controlled with my old Arp Odyssey which I even added CV outs for the LFO/Envelopes so I could modulate them and ran the output into the filter input, fun times.

I might buy this, not really my interest these days but it really looks like great fun.

[0] https://120years.net

[1] https://barthopkin.com/experimental-musical-instruments-back...

an hour agoofalkaed

$1149.99, in case you are wondering: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1946617-REG/korg_phas...

5 hours agofauria

Not too bad, considering the space it sits in.

Another "physical modeling synthesizer" which I've been looking at for the last few weeks (https://www.ericasynths.lv/steampipe-3153/) goes for €990, which is more or less the same as the phase8, when you consider the currency difference.

Edit: Actually, seems phase8 will be slightly cheaper, my local (Spain) shops seems to sell it for around €950.

5 hours agoembedding-shape

Coming next year: A Behringer knockoff that's just as good for $250.

4 hours agoChipopLeMoral

“just as good” with every single corner cut ;)

3 hours agokennywinker

[dead]

23 minutes agoyeasku

I keep telling myself to stop lusting over gear and just start making music, but…

EDIT: Saw that it’s pretty much a fixed-key device, which makes it much less appealing. Still pretty damn cool, though.

5 hours agobyproxy

GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome = buying stuff you don't really need is a serious problem in the synth/eurorack community.

4 hours agoTangurena2

Doesn't every musician with money have this problem? Every rockstar owns like 50 guitars. And they don' like to admit they're just collecting. They always got some story about why they need to buy the nth guitar that's missing from all the other tens of guitars they already own.

Almost all of them own instruments and gear they'll touch once and never do anything meaningful with ever again. Then it becomes a fixture on their walls or den.

It all seems wasteful.

But still, by rich people standards, it seems cheaper than other things like buying a huge boat.

4 hours agoracl101

Yeah I mean many people with disposable income seems to be doing this, it's just that the music community has a name for it, GAS, and it's a bit of a meme in the community.

I have a friend who seemingly collects mechanical keyboards. He keeps saying he needs them for various purposes, but always seems to be using the latest one, then the old ones go up on a shelf and sit there.

Another friend is obsessed with football, so he has a bunch of shoes, also "depending on the grass/ground" yet keeps using 1 or 2 the most, the others seems to in some cases be "collectors items" and never gets used.

Another friend is a avid golfer, literally has a wall in the garage with clubs, but seems to mostly stick with the clubs they have in their go-to bag.

I'm sure I could come up with more examples, it just seems pervasive among all people who can spend money on their hobbies.

4 hours agoembedding-shape

I have a friend who plays tennis. He literally has like 100 tennis balls, all neatly packed and sorted on a shelf. Of course, all you need for a tennis match is like 3-4, since more won't fit in the pockets anyway.

an hour agomystifyingpoi

This goes to 11!

4 hours agoChipopLeMoral

Or any community that involves conspicuous consumption. There's always what feels like a majority of people who collect/buy/show off more than they use things

4 hours agorjh29

and that's fine in some sense if you're honest about what you're doing.

I have at least one guitar that I rarely play but I keep because I consider it a work of art and a collectible. But, I have others which are workhorses and I play daily.

It gets awkward when collecting is presented as a way to be a better musician, which is clearly false.

4 hours agowdfx

It also percolates into reviews, too. When a nontrivial fraction of the community is buying dreams and is about collecting as opposed to using whatever it is, some reviewers style their content towards that crowd and overlook issues or benefits that pop up when actually using the gear.

I don't have a problem with collecting, but I'd love for the distinction to be more upfront.

4 hours agoScene_Cast2

On that note I absolutely love Matt Johnson (Jamiroquai)'s youtube channel because you can tell he likes gear but spends a huge amount of time actually playing it and making his own patches. So much of the review market is just GAS-inducing paid promo stuff.

2 hours agorjh29

> It also percolates into reviews, too

It's kind of easy to detect though. I usually read three/four paragraphs before I realize that the person reviewing doesn't actually make music and doesn't consider the music making parts of the hardware, and instead focuses on very generic stuff that basically the manufacturer handed to them and said "make sure this is included".

3 hours agoembedding-shape

Problem? Buying what makes you happy is keeping the entire synth industry afloat!

2 hours agoneilpointer

Could mount a guitar pickup under the tines of a kalimba and get much the same effects.

4 hours agowdfx

I think that’s actually pretty different. In this case the tines are being electronically “plucked” - in the kalimba + pickups case you have to do all the plucking

3 hours agokennywinker

You might an internet search for "Array mbira" entertaining.

3 hours agorobinsonb5

Actually you can change the keys up so much you can do microtonal scales on it, but at the end of the day its a metallaphone so not likely to ever be the only piece of gear you'd want to use, you'd want to mix this with other gear to make a full sound.

4 hours agoshams93

“Essentially” in the sense you can’t really change the 8 frequencies you have to choose from quickly. Kinda impractical to do if you wanna play a set that spans different keys/tonalities.

2 hours agobyproxy

Maybe i'm not fully grasping how it works, but i don't really see the acoustic part, aren't the resonators just turning the steel vibrations into an electric signal via coils in the same way an electric guitar works? basically what's the advantage of this vs plugin an electric guitar as a signal input to an analog synth?

2 hours agor0me1

Guitar strings do not generate sound, unless plucked. However there are devices like the Sustaniac and the short-lived Moog guitar that do use electromagnets to induce vibrations in the strings. So you could compare this to the Sustaniac.

EDIT - forgot about the ebow

2 hours agokagakuninja

Seems like the bars are just there to produce the (almost) sine wave oscillation part of the synth which is neat I guess but it just seems like a gimmick if I am being totally honest. I still respect them trying new ideas though.

4 hours agojimmyjazz14

I mean… this is pretty similar to how a rhodes works… are those a gimmick?

3 hours agokennywinker

Doesn't the Rhodes use hammers to hit the bars though?

31 minutes agojimmyjazz14

Physical hardware is fun, sounds better (when analog or acoustic) but I can't go back after a long time with a streamlined VST-based workflow. For playing without a computer, I simply use romplers for the convenience. So, while I have a gut desire for this gear, I won't ever actually buy it...

4 hours agoglimshe

Unfortunately, I definitely disagree with the "sounds better" argument, particularly for this instrument. I do own a vibraphone, and happen to also design synthesizers, and I did not find the Phase8 sound to be compelling. One of the appeals of a synthesizer is its spectral plasticity, and the output of the Phase8 relies too heavily on the sonic characteristics of the resonator medium. My vibraphone definitely suffers from this, and has the cultural baggage of being a recognizable instrument, but it is a much more pleasing sameness than the Phase8.

3 hours agowaffletower

Wow, this is really innovative. It really takes "physical modeling" synths to another, more literal level. Would love to have been a fly on the wall when the idea was proposed.

This + an Ekdahl Moisturizer would be an interesting pairing.

3 hours agoH1Supreme

They have visible pickups, which presumably have a permanent magnet core.

But how are the resonators getting 'plucked'? Is it the same electromagnet as the pickup or a separate one? I can't imagine those two modes would work well. (i.e. dumping current across the coil would make the magnet want to escape)

Perhaps there's a field coil instead of a permanent magnet?

4 hours agoafandian

My guess is that it uses magnetic fields to resonate the bars (kinda like an ebow). Any plucking types sounds are probably done with filter/envelopes within the electronics.

4 hours agojimmyjazz14

Glad to see this has finally been released after years of R&D :) can't wait to see what Takahashi-san and team cook up next.

In principle, Korg Berlin looks like a great model for satellite incubator within an established organization. Would absolutely love to work there.

4 hours agoasdhtjkujh

I was wondering to myself why korg berlin exists. Like i would be shocked if they sell enough of these to pay for the preceding five years of rent much less the salaries. Is it genuinely moonshot r&d, like a bell labs or xerox parc? Is it just to prevent Takahashi from starting a competitor? Something else? Whichever reason, i’m glad it exists… it just feels improbable.

3 hours agokennywinker

Agreed, its existence is implausible, but I assume they're consulting on other projects for Korg Japan in addition to developing Phase8 and other prototypes. They're undoubtedly taking a loss (despite low European salaries) but their contributions across the board could also scale non-linearly.

I also imagine that it's the olive branch that brought Takahashi back to the company after he left. He brought Korg back from the dead and they were probably and rightfully desperate to find a way to retain their top performer.

2 hours agoasdhtjkujh

It's honestly incredible they're bringing this to market! This style of incubator tends to work on a lofty goal and the research and ideas explored on the way trickle down into other parts of the company and find their way into more accessible products. Really similar in theory to the over the top concept cars manufacturers build that never see the light of day.

an hour agoericwood

Looks really neat. I wish I had one, I am curious but it just sounds like an FM to me. In the demos I hear very decayed percussive FM sounds or mellow bell like FM sounds.

5 hours agoyetkin

It looks most similar to a Rhodes piano-type electromechanical keyboard, where tuned metal elements are somehow actuated and then sonified with a guitar pickup. Unlikely theres any FM which would require independently digitizing each of the resonators and just generally a lot of complexity that doesnt seem warranted.

The similarity in timbre isn't coincidental though -- FM is noted for its ability to emulate complex timbres like bells/metallic tones (such as electric pianos) that are challenging for more traditional subtractive synthesis architectures.

35 minutes agossalazar

Yeah as far as I can tell the bars are just producing sine waves and everything else is done within the electronics, interesting concept but honestly not all that exciting to me.

4 hours agojimmyjazz14

If I understand correctly, it is doing frequency modulation somewhere, but the main point is that you can physically interact with the resonators, and influence the sound that way.

4 hours agoembedding-shape

And here I told myself I wasn't going to buy anymore synthesizers.

3 hours agotechblueberry

If Kraftwerk were still doing their thing this would be right up their alley. But they probably got their own special gear.

4 hours agoracl101

I guess I am left wondering why the person in the photo is playing it with a pencil and a truffle.

5 hours agojihadjihad

Says right underneath:

> Beyond adjusting parameters, phase8 invites physical interaction. Sculpt sound by touching, plucking, strumming, or tapping the resonators – or experiment by adding found objects for new textures.

Like prepared piano.

5 hours agolewispollard

Congrats, this was news more than 2 years ago. Maybe next time post an Wikipedia article instead.

3 hours agohackomorespacko

It’s news because you can actually buy one now. If you’re gonna be mean it’s best not to be mean AND wrong.