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The rise and fall of snake oil

I think they will soon be re-writing this article with the addition of "and rise again".

I work in neurotech/sleeptech and one of the biggest challenges I see in our industry is, if not pure snake-oil, the over-hype of "backed by research".

People have accused us of being snake-oil as well, and I get why they might think that if you haven't read or don't understand the science.

I've seen products that claim to be Vagus Nerve stimulators that are worn on the wrist, nowhere near the vagus nerve. Products that claim to mimic the "magnetic frequency of hormones".

We've also got the current "It's got electrolytes" craze which is kinda crazy that we've truly replicated idiocracy.

For those curious, I'm the co-founder of affectablesleep.com

6 hours agopedalpete

Most of that site reads as a "trust us, sound makes you heal!" I don't see a single thing there that tries to explain the correlation between bumping your brain with sound and "restoration". It doesn't explain what it restores, why it works better than nothing.

Honestly this website doesn't seem to even be trying to sell anything. "Help your sleep" how? "doesn't make you sleep longer" but what does it do instead? Do I feel more restored when I wake up even with a shorter sleep time? It's not even trying to sell me on a specific outcome that I John Everyman is facing.

Snake oil things are typically very light on details and this site is also light on details. Maybe it's a victim of form over function? The site's design looks nice but has very low information density.

5 hours agodabbz

Fair criticisms. However, there are FDA limitations on what you can say regarding devices that both measure and affect biomarkers and neuromarkers while the user is unconscious.

This is why we describe the neural function of sleep, but can't specifically get into details regarding increases in slow-wave activity, 15% decrease in early night cortisol, 14.5% increase in HRV, etc etc. We can link to the research, but can't say "this is what we do".

We are relying on user testimonials, which we are gathering through our beta testing and beyond.

At the same time, we do describe the "clearer thinking", "immune function", "stress" etc about half way down the page.

It's something we will continue to get better at.

5 hours agopedalpete

Does the idea of submitting one's self to using something like this not terrify anyone else? The more true the effectiveness of these products become, the more they have the possibility to do the inverse on accident (or potentially on purpose), no?

3 hours agosqircles

I think it should. Our system is closed-loop and we monitor the real-time change in brain-wave activity. The process is very precise, and must be (80ms window for a 50ms pulse).

When we first started, many in the sleep community were against using these techniques. A significant number of the studies look specifically at safety, and often people report to these as "null results" when in fact what was being examined was the potential negative impact.

One example is the study on metabolic function [1], which showed no result in healthy men. It did not harm their metabolic function, though it also didn't improve it (though I'm not sure how you would measure improvement in healthy metabolic function).

For our company, there are many modalities and capabilities we are building for the future, we began with auditory stimulation and this one in particular due to the low-risk and volume of research.

[1] https://doi.org/10.1016/j.psyneuen.2018.08.028

2 hours agopedalpete

The article is about the literal oil of boiled snake meat, or at least the product that purported to be that.

5 hours agosyncsynchalt

[flagged]

2 hours agoskeeter2020

> Government analysis and enforcement of standards meant that snake oil had acquired a reputation for infamy that it retains to this day.

Notably, they ended up being shut down due to a lack of actual snake oil in the product, not because of their claims that snake oil cured maladies.

If we can draw a lesson for busting today’s multitude of scams, it might be easier to prove the scam is bogus on its own terms rather than appealing to science or medicine or financial authorities.

5 hours agojanalsncm

It's a shame that the article is so interesting in telling us about snake oil salesmen and the shenanigans and questionable claims involved in the trade, but it neglects to explain the direct origin of the phrase "snake oil salesman."

The phrase comes not from the ineffectiveness of snake oil, but rather from the common practice of selling counterfeit snake oil, that is to say selling some other liquid falsely labeled as snake. There was a famous Federal bust of a snake oil salesman, and after testing it was revealed that he was selling a liquid with beef fat instead of honest-to-God snake fat.

3 hours agoCobrastanJorji

Did we read different articles? That's right in there...

2 hours agoitintheory

Given that this timeline maximizes irony we will soon find that the demonization of rendered gopher snake fat was an early victory of big medicine, protecting doctors from the competition of a genuine all purpose elixir of health.

6 hours agodelichon

> In 1915 an analysis of Stanley’s Snake Oil Liniment by the US Bureau of Chemistry showed it to ‘consist principally of a light mineral oil mixed with about 1 per cent of fatty oil (probably beef fat), capsicum, and possibly a trace of camphor or turpentine’. Stanley pleaded guilty to the charge of mis-branding his product, and paid a fine of $20.

$20 in 1915 is like $650 today

2 hours agodjeastm

It was not only the FDA that stopped snake oil. A lot of it was also stopped by state licensure and medical school accreditation (see the Flexner Report), all of which happened in roughly the same era.

What I take from this is that AI code, biology, etc, will not announce itself. We will have to announce the human-produced content. Introductions are about to be ritualistic again. Queue humorous (but not really all that valid) counterpoint: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoe24aSvLtw

6 hours ago0xWTF

The manosphere is rife with snake oil salesmen, it just changes form with time. Snake Oil as a concept is as old as money. Everyone wants a miracle, especially when hope can be commodified.

5 hours agoZunarJ5

It goes far beyond the manosphere. You can find people selling all sorts of naturopathic, homeopathic, crystal, and Jesus endorsed medicines.

Anywhere a group of people gathers to downplay pharmaceuticals or evidence based medicine, you'll find them pushing their own untested and unregulated junk.

5 hours agocogman10

I prefer Professor Savage's swamp elixir https://www.lhf.org/event/medicine-shows-2/ they haven't announced the schedule for this coming summer, but it's well worth a visit up to Des Moines if you can work one out just to see it.

5 hours agobluGill

Fall? The new US surgeon general nominee is a supplement hawker.

3 hours agokevin_thibedeau

The article’s about the product itself, not the idiom you’re referencing

3 hours agojoenot443

We need yet another "This has what it says it has" regulation around supplements and vitamins. There's basically no guarantee that any vitamin pill you pull off the shelf has any percentage of it's claimed ingredients. You could be getting 10% of what you wanted, you could be getting 1000% of what you wanted.

Fortunately, the body can handle some pretty wide variation. But unfortunately if you are taking a vitamin because you lack a nutrient, there's really no guarantee that your actually treating that deficiency.

5 hours agocogman10

Snake oil may have died, but the snake oil salesmen sure did not die out. If anything they’ve only proliferated.

2 hours agoroysting

They've become bolder with the subterfuge too. You can see the glass bottle is empty but they continue insisting it's filled to the brim.

34 minutes agoccimmergreen

Over the course of the 19th century snake oil transformed from folk remedy, to industrial medicine, to notorious fake.

And yet they can be a great source for Omega-3 fatty acids, most notably the Chinese water snake up to 20% EPA, the Erabu Sea Snake high in DHA. Rattlesnakes are much lower, around 5% to 6% Omega-3's better than nothing. I will always personally prefer Krill Oil for the high absorption.

There will always be scammers and grifters but I would prefer to not let them ruin the original product they are trying to exploit.