The world is so not ready for the impact of LLMs on security issues. If true, congrats to the Calif team. It’s likely too technical for me to understand in details but looking forward to reading the 55 pages report
you're assuming that blue teams and engineers are sitting around twiddling their thumbs
Most companies in the world do not have “blue teams”. They barely have any kind of security employee.
They've got a guy (who they're considering laying off)
Don't worry the LLMs that are replacing him, are also replacing the hackers too. Pretty soon (if not already), it will just be LLMs fighting LLMs.
no they don’t.
in my experience they have a person who does it sometimes when they have time, at best
Not at all. I’m considering that the amount of vulnerable software in the wild is very, very large, with most organizations not managing their systems properly. Imagine all the small to medium size companies that do not have budgets for a dedicated, talented security team. And all the software that will never be patched. We are at the beginning of the exponential
unfortunately a little light on the details. I'm very curious how the bug survived through MTE
This makes more sense. You don't trigger MTE since you're not doing anything for force MTE to take action the program isn't actually changing.
My other question would be, why didn't apple use fbounds checking here? They've been doing it aggressively everywhere else.
MTE plus fbounds checking everywhere should lead to an extremly hardened OS
could be a different type of data only attack, which doesnt override the boundaries
Well it’s memory corruption so I think it’s pretty safe to assume it’s a bounds issue. I’m not sure if it’s possible to get this with something like type confusion tho I could be wrong here.
Quite strange indeed, given that was one of the main points on their security conference a few months ago.
I can only imagine that
1. it’s to performance sensitive
Or
2. The os is so darn large it’s hard to recompile everything
Memory Tagging Extension
Arm published the Memory Tagging Extension (MTE) specification in 2019 as a tool for hardware to help find memory corruption bugs. MTE is a memory tagging and tag-checking system, where every memory allocation is tagged with a secret. The hardware guarantees that later requests to access memory are granted only if the request contains the correct secret. If the secrets don’t match, the app crashes, and the event is logged. This allows developers to identify memory corruption bugs immediately as they occur.
GPU memory/shaders/etc. isn't protected by MTE or PAC. They said "data-only", so I guess GPU commands could fit into this description.
IIRC, the GPU is behind a memory controller, so I doubt corrupting GPU memory alone could lead to an LPE. But I suppose it would give you someplace to store stuff if you can make something else read from it.
> I'm very curious how the bug survived through MTE
from what they demonstrated, this seems to only be a $100,000 exploit in Apple's bug bounty platform, but if they package it right, it could be a $1.5 million exploit
They simply have to show it against a beta version of MacOS, and frame it as unauthorized access, and maybe from locked mode if possible
This is an lpe I believe what you’re describing is a zero click rce.
how much do you think it is worth in the bug bounty program
They don’t seem to state lpe as one of the bugs. Maybe 100k? There’s alot of factors that go into it so I’m really not able to say. I could see it going for lots more or lots less
First Mozilla, now even Apple is making up fake vulnerabilities to hype up Mythos. /sarcasm
Cisco put up a totally bogus 10.0 CVE just for this reason, too
apple didn't "make up" this vulnerability, it was an external team reporting an issue
The commenter was being sarcastic to highlight the current trend of dismissing Mythos, and LLM’s finding security vulnerabilities in general, as a non issue.
screech nothing but stochastic parrots! glorified autocomplete!
just predicts the next word!
I bought the M5 specifically cause of MIE. Now I feel dumb.
You shouldn’t, MTE blocks a large chunk of vulnerabilities and makes things like rop and jop very difficult if not impossible now.
I should've added /s.
It’s unironically a good question :)
you should worry about npm/pypi malware, not memory corruption bugs
Did the article get edited? There is not much description of the field trip.
The world is so not ready for the impact of LLMs on security issues. If true, congrats to the Calif team. It’s likely too technical for me to understand in details but looking forward to reading the 55 pages report
you're assuming that blue teams and engineers are sitting around twiddling their thumbs
Most companies in the world do not have “blue teams”. They barely have any kind of security employee.
They've got a guy (who they're considering laying off)
Don't worry the LLMs that are replacing him, are also replacing the hackers too. Pretty soon (if not already), it will just be LLMs fighting LLMs.
no they don’t.
in my experience they have a person who does it sometimes when they have time, at best
Not at all. I’m considering that the amount of vulnerable software in the wild is very, very large, with most organizations not managing their systems properly. Imagine all the small to medium size companies that do not have budgets for a dedicated, talented security team. And all the software that will never be patched. We are at the beginning of the exponential
unfortunately a little light on the details. I'm very curious how the bug survived through MTE
Upon further reading on data only attacks
(https://www.usenix.org/publications/loginonline/data-only-at...)
This makes more sense. You don't trigger MTE since you're not doing anything for force MTE to take action the program isn't actually changing.
My other question would be, why didn't apple use fbounds checking here? They've been doing it aggressively everywhere else.
MTE plus fbounds checking everywhere should lead to an extremly hardened OS
could be a different type of data only attack, which doesnt override the boundaries
Well it’s memory corruption so I think it’s pretty safe to assume it’s a bounds issue. I’m not sure if it’s possible to get this with something like type confusion tho I could be wrong here.
Quite strange indeed, given that was one of the main points on their security conference a few months ago.
I can only imagine that
1. it’s to performance sensitive
Or
2. The os is so darn large it’s hard to recompile everything
Memory Tagging Extension
Arm published the Memory Tagging Extension (MTE) specification in 2019 as a tool for hardware to help find memory corruption bugs. MTE is a memory tagging and tag-checking system, where every memory allocation is tagged with a secret. The hardware guarantees that later requests to access memory are granted only if the request contains the correct secret. If the secrets don’t match, the app crashes, and the event is logged. This allows developers to identify memory corruption bugs immediately as they occur.
https://support.apple.com/guide/security/operating-system-in...
Thank you. I was about to ask.
GPU memory/shaders/etc. isn't protected by MTE or PAC. They said "data-only", so I guess GPU commands could fit into this description.
IIRC, the GPU is behind a memory controller, so I doubt corrupting GPU memory alone could lead to an LPE. But I suppose it would give you someplace to store stuff if you can make something else read from it.
> I'm very curious how the bug survived through MTE
Its not the first time bugs get past MTE, happened with Google Pixel last year ... https://github.blog/security/vulnerability-research/bypassin...
from what they demonstrated, this seems to only be a $100,000 exploit in Apple's bug bounty platform, but if they package it right, it could be a $1.5 million exploit
They simply have to show it against a beta version of MacOS, and frame it as unauthorized access, and maybe from locked mode if possible
This is an lpe I believe what you’re describing is a zero click rce.
how much do you think it is worth in the bug bounty program
They don’t seem to state lpe as one of the bugs. Maybe 100k? There’s alot of factors that go into it so I’m really not able to say. I could see it going for lots more or lots less
First Mozilla, now even Apple is making up fake vulnerabilities to hype up Mythos. /sarcasm
Cisco put up a totally bogus 10.0 CVE just for this reason, too
? can you expand?
https://www.rapid7.com/blog/post/ve-cve-2026-20182-critical-...
apple didn't "make up" this vulnerability, it was an external team reporting an issue
The commenter was being sarcastic to highlight the current trend of dismissing Mythos, and LLM’s finding security vulnerabilities in general, as a non issue.
screech nothing but stochastic parrots! glorified autocomplete!
just predicts the next word!
I bought the M5 specifically cause of MIE. Now I feel dumb.
You shouldn’t, MTE blocks a large chunk of vulnerabilities and makes things like rop and jop very difficult if not impossible now.
I should've added /s.
It’s unironically a good question :)
you should worry about npm/pypi malware, not memory corruption bugs
Did the article get edited? There is not much description of the field trip.