The sheriff that arrested him should face criminal charges for misuse of authority. That he doesn't reflects a structural weakness in US law. In most European legal systems a law enforcement officer overstepping his legal authority would face criminal charges for it.
"In return, Bushart will drop the federal civil rights lawsuit he filed against Sheriff Nick Weems, investigator Jason Morrow and the county for violating his constitutional rights."
Even at his age of 60 (I'm getting up there), I wouldn't have made that deal.
In the US we grant immunity to the law in proportion to power. Rather seems it should be the opposite if you ask me.
It's not a structural weakness, it's an intentional feature. Our legislature specifically and intentionally made it impossible for citizens (or anyone) to hold police responsible for anything.
It is a weakness, but yes, an intentional one. Why a weakness? It leads to structural instability.
> retired Tennessee law enforcement officer Larry Bushart has won a substantial settlement from the county and sheriff behind his arrest.
I did not expect to read that the victim was a retired law enforcement officer. This whole case is weird. I’m glad he won a settlement but I would like to see some actual accountability.
The path to solving a culture that overincarcerates is not by incarcerating those involved in perpetuating that culture.
We need to tame the impulse to throw people in jail for doing things we dislike, not just point it at different targets.
I see several comments saying that criminal charges should be brought over this. That is not the way.
We have overincarceration and underincarceration simultaneously.
Some who are in jail should not be. Some who aren't in jail should be. If I locked you up for a month over a meme, I'd go to jail for years.
The system needs to change so pursuing frivolous or weak charges doesn't work. We also need to reform bail, which has gone way outside of historical/constitutional norms.
Turning it into an escalating back and forth of each side trying to imprison the other, is not conducive to the kind of change we need. To take a recent example, while I don't particularly like James Comey or Letitia James, I don't think they should have been targeted. That kind of stuff is what happens when it escalates to each side calling for the other side to be locked up.
> The system needs to change so pursuing frivolous or weak charges doesn't work.
Agreed. Cases this knowingly frivolous, for example, should be treated as the criminal kidnapping or false imprisonment it would be if any other citizen perpetrated it.
How is that an example? Whatever you do now doesn't work retroactively.
Changing the system means removing the potential for abuse of power, not punishing abuse of power after the fact.
> Whatever you do now doesn't work retroactively.
The point of such a thing is to deter similar conduct in the future.
The fact that this isn't a crime, and that qualified immunity typically means they can't even be held responsible civily, is part of what encourages police to commit misconduct like this.
The only folks punished here were the local taxpayers footing the bill.
If you're going to change the system, which you need to do to make it possible to bring charges in a case like this, the other changes I suggested would be more effective and harder to weaponize.
The core problem here is that the system allowed an innocent person to stay in jail. That needs to be fixed on a system level, not by trying to punish people after the fact for bad outcomes.
Indeed. Thankfully - as has been proven time and time again in America - if leniency is given to those who abuse their power, they will absolutely never ever decide to abuse their power again.
Nobody should have that power.
What kind of mindset do you need to have where you think the only way to prevent someone from doing something is via the threat of imprisonment after the fact? The vast majority of people don't do this, and that's because they don't have the power to do it, not because they don't want to.
Sure. Let’s start pushing back against over-incarceration by not punishing people that knowingly did something wrong and flies in the face of the country’s supposed values.
Makes sense.
If you don't hold people accountable for removing the liberty of others without just cause, those who abuse their power will continue to run rampant.
Where does this idea come from that we somehow can't take power away from people without criminal punishment after the fact?
Nobody should have this power, and then abuse of power wouldn't be an issue.
that is literally the way. these maga law breakers need accountability. They got off scott free for j6. we're still fighting the civil war and white fragility because they suffered no consequences the last time.
Not just scott free, but they might be getting a million dollars each from tax payers due to that asinine "settlement" from Trump suing the government.
Thank god 1st amendment works.
But it should not get paid from taxpayer money, instea the offending officer ahould pay it
I at least partly disagree, speaking from my perspective as a small-time city council member. I agree that ideally taxpayers shouldn't pay money for this kind of misconduct. But in practice, misconduct must face consequences, those affected must be made whole, the offending employee likely can't pay the judgment in full, and most importantly, the monetary judgment is the most effective way to motivate city governments and their constituents to effect change to prevent further misconduct.
I know it gets more complicated, especially with larger cities--and doubly so where states have control over police departments or similar. But in general, in a great number of cities and localities, this judgment alone would have a big impact on oversight and governance of the department, probably even if the governing body also disliked the plaintiff's political views. $835k is almost 3 mills of property tax revenue in my city. So, that's my $0.02.
> the offending employee likely can't pay the judgment in full
My doctor is required to carry malpractice insurance. Those who commit repeated egregious mistakes become uninsurable.
Make cops do the same.
Cops generally don't care because it's not coming out of their pocket. And around where I live for a multitude of reasons, cops don't generally work in their hometown but the next one over. So it's not even their tax dollars paying for their fuckups (directly or indirectly through insurance and premiums).
Eh, I’d prefer they get punished. Imagine if you misconfigured a service and then had to pay out the fee for breaking your company’s reliability contract…
And to say the least, I doubt the officer has $800K.
I’ll be honest this seems low for what he’s been through.
I would voluntarily go to jail for 37 days for that amount.
I think it's a shame this doesn't come with criminal charges, though. False imprisonment? Kidnapping?
He wasn’t jailed for 37 days. He was jailed indefinitely. Every day he didn’t know if things would get worse. He didn’t know how long he was staying. He was already in the absurd scenario for being jailed for a meme so anything was possible at that point. He happened to get out after 37 days.
Would you do that if you were an ex-law enforcement officer who's racial profile puts you under the protection of criminals on the yard that largely support the person you heckled while not knowing that it was only going to be 37 days?
I wouldn't, but that does really put some perspective on it.
His trouble isn't just from the time in jail, though. It's from all the Trump supporters who harass him as well. Previously, and in the future.
Would you live through the stress of a legal case with unknown legal costs and unknown incarceration time for that amount of money?
No. I'm just saying said amount seems fair from the monetary side of this case's specifics.
(And let's face it, the outcome here was guaranteed, and the inevitable settlement was always gonna include attorney fees or be done pro-bono.)
And in cases like this, the actual perpetrators typically don't pay a cent out of their own pockets. Instead, the city or county indemnifies the defendant, either directly or through insurance. Which means that taxpayers (possibly including the injured party) are the ones who pay.
Indeed. Qualified immunity is a stain on American jurisprudence.
You can almost never hold anyone in government accountable. You are forced to sue your own community to get some shred of justice while the actual people who violated your rights face zero accountability.
Tell lawmakers who want your vote this November that you want an end to qualified immunity. Agents of the state should not be less accountable to the laws of the land than regular individuals.
It’s about what your average senior engineer makes here at hackernews per month
A judgement isn't enough. Those behind the warrant should be in prison, and fined personally. The tax payers of Tennessee shouldn't have to foot the bill for their malfeasance.
Imagine if he said "we need a patriot to bail out the guy who killed charlie kirk" like Charlie kirk said about the guy who tried to murder Paul Pelosi and was at Nancy Pelosi's house to torture her.
Sometimes I feel like I live in an alternative reality because I very clearly remember thousands of people saying shit like that.
Are you sure they weren’t ironically referencing the Pelosi case to make a point about the double standard?
The sheriff that arrested him should face criminal charges for misuse of authority. That he doesn't reflects a structural weakness in US law. In most European legal systems a law enforcement officer overstepping his legal authority would face criminal charges for it.
"In return, Bushart will drop the federal civil rights lawsuit he filed against Sheriff Nick Weems, investigator Jason Morrow and the county for violating his constitutional rights."
Even at his age of 60 (I'm getting up there), I wouldn't have made that deal.
https://www.newschannel5.com/news/newschannel-5-investigates...
In the US we grant immunity to the law in proportion to power. Rather seems it should be the opposite if you ask me.
It's not a structural weakness, it's an intentional feature. Our legislature specifically and intentionally made it impossible for citizens (or anyone) to hold police responsible for anything.
It is a weakness, but yes, an intentional one. Why a weakness? It leads to structural instability.
> retired Tennessee law enforcement officer Larry Bushart has won a substantial settlement from the county and sheriff behind his arrest.
I did not expect to read that the victim was a retired law enforcement officer. This whole case is weird. I’m glad he won a settlement but I would like to see some actual accountability.
The path to solving a culture that overincarcerates is not by incarcerating those involved in perpetuating that culture.
We need to tame the impulse to throw people in jail for doing things we dislike, not just point it at different targets.
I see several comments saying that criminal charges should be brought over this. That is not the way.
We have overincarceration and underincarceration simultaneously.
Some who are in jail should not be. Some who aren't in jail should be. If I locked you up for a month over a meme, I'd go to jail for years.
The system needs to change so pursuing frivolous or weak charges doesn't work. We also need to reform bail, which has gone way outside of historical/constitutional norms.
Turning it into an escalating back and forth of each side trying to imprison the other, is not conducive to the kind of change we need. To take a recent example, while I don't particularly like James Comey or Letitia James, I don't think they should have been targeted. That kind of stuff is what happens when it escalates to each side calling for the other side to be locked up.
> The system needs to change so pursuing frivolous or weak charges doesn't work.
Agreed. Cases this knowingly frivolous, for example, should be treated as the criminal kidnapping or false imprisonment it would be if any other citizen perpetrated it.
How is that an example? Whatever you do now doesn't work retroactively.
Changing the system means removing the potential for abuse of power, not punishing abuse of power after the fact.
> Whatever you do now doesn't work retroactively.
The point of such a thing is to deter similar conduct in the future.
The fact that this isn't a crime, and that qualified immunity typically means they can't even be held responsible civily, is part of what encourages police to commit misconduct like this.
The only folks punished here were the local taxpayers footing the bill.
If you're going to change the system, which you need to do to make it possible to bring charges in a case like this, the other changes I suggested would be more effective and harder to weaponize.
The core problem here is that the system allowed an innocent person to stay in jail. That needs to be fixed on a system level, not by trying to punish people after the fact for bad outcomes.
Indeed. Thankfully - as has been proven time and time again in America - if leniency is given to those who abuse their power, they will absolutely never ever decide to abuse their power again.
Nobody should have that power.
What kind of mindset do you need to have where you think the only way to prevent someone from doing something is via the threat of imprisonment after the fact? The vast majority of people don't do this, and that's because they don't have the power to do it, not because they don't want to.
Sure. Let’s start pushing back against over-incarceration by not punishing people that knowingly did something wrong and flies in the face of the country’s supposed values.
Makes sense.
If you don't hold people accountable for removing the liberty of others without just cause, those who abuse their power will continue to run rampant.
Where does this idea come from that we somehow can't take power away from people without criminal punishment after the fact?
Nobody should have this power, and then abuse of power wouldn't be an issue.
that is literally the way. these maga law breakers need accountability. They got off scott free for j6. we're still fighting the civil war and white fragility because they suffered no consequences the last time.
Not just scott free, but they might be getting a million dollars each from tax payers due to that asinine "settlement" from Trump suing the government.
Thank god 1st amendment works.
But it should not get paid from taxpayer money, instea the offending officer ahould pay it
I at least partly disagree, speaking from my perspective as a small-time city council member. I agree that ideally taxpayers shouldn't pay money for this kind of misconduct. But in practice, misconduct must face consequences, those affected must be made whole, the offending employee likely can't pay the judgment in full, and most importantly, the monetary judgment is the most effective way to motivate city governments and their constituents to effect change to prevent further misconduct.
I know it gets more complicated, especially with larger cities--and doubly so where states have control over police departments or similar. But in general, in a great number of cities and localities, this judgment alone would have a big impact on oversight and governance of the department, probably even if the governing body also disliked the plaintiff's political views. $835k is almost 3 mills of property tax revenue in my city. So, that's my $0.02.
> the offending employee likely can't pay the judgment in full
My doctor is required to carry malpractice insurance. Those who commit repeated egregious mistakes become uninsurable.
Make cops do the same.
Cops generally don't care because it's not coming out of their pocket. And around where I live for a multitude of reasons, cops don't generally work in their hometown but the next one over. So it's not even their tax dollars paying for their fuckups (directly or indirectly through insurance and premiums).
Eh, I’d prefer they get punished. Imagine if you misconfigured a service and then had to pay out the fee for breaking your company’s reliability contract…
And to say the least, I doubt the officer has $800K.
This was the meme he posted that got him jailed: https://www.fire.org/sites/default/files/styles/417xy/public...
so the "meme" was a photo and a quote
Yes. (And an accurate quote, too.)
I’ll be honest this seems low for what he’s been through.
I would voluntarily go to jail for 37 days for that amount.
I think it's a shame this doesn't come with criminal charges, though. False imprisonment? Kidnapping?
He wasn’t jailed for 37 days. He was jailed indefinitely. Every day he didn’t know if things would get worse. He didn’t know how long he was staying. He was already in the absurd scenario for being jailed for a meme so anything was possible at that point. He happened to get out after 37 days.
Would you do that if you were an ex-law enforcement officer who's racial profile puts you under the protection of criminals on the yard that largely support the person you heckled while not knowing that it was only going to be 37 days?
I wouldn't, but that does really put some perspective on it.
His trouble isn't just from the time in jail, though. It's from all the Trump supporters who harass him as well. Previously, and in the future.
Would you live through the stress of a legal case with unknown legal costs and unknown incarceration time for that amount of money?
No. I'm just saying said amount seems fair from the monetary side of this case's specifics.
(And let's face it, the outcome here was guaranteed, and the inevitable settlement was always gonna include attorney fees or be done pro-bono.)
And in cases like this, the actual perpetrators typically don't pay a cent out of their own pockets. Instead, the city or county indemnifies the defendant, either directly or through insurance. Which means that taxpayers (possibly including the injured party) are the ones who pay.
Indeed. Qualified immunity is a stain on American jurisprudence.
You can almost never hold anyone in government accountable. You are forced to sue your own community to get some shred of justice while the actual people who violated your rights face zero accountability.
Tell lawmakers who want your vote this November that you want an end to qualified immunity. Agents of the state should not be less accountable to the laws of the land than regular individuals.
It’s about what your average senior engineer makes here at hackernews per month
A judgement isn't enough. Those behind the warrant should be in prison, and fined personally. The tax payers of Tennessee shouldn't have to foot the bill for their malfeasance.
Imagine if he said "we need a patriot to bail out the guy who killed charlie kirk" like Charlie kirk said about the guy who tried to murder Paul Pelosi and was at Nancy Pelosi's house to torture her.
Sometimes I feel like I live in an alternative reality because I very clearly remember thousands of people saying shit like that.
Are you sure they weren’t ironically referencing the Pelosi case to make a point about the double standard?
They very well could be. If so, great.
Poe’s law and all.