Worldwide chip pricing and it's effects on the overall economy are fascinating. I expected by now somebody with a gen -2 class VLSI plant would swing into action and make <thing> for 2/3 the cost of the majors, and clean up in volume as the market absorbs the price shock. But no, instead it suits everyone in the pipeline to whine about it, but mark up prices instead.
I am guessing the other side of this, the price drops will happen but slowly, and just like gas pricing, the profit is in rapid reaction to shortage and slow reaction to competition returning.
Chip pricing a sawtooth would make a LOT of money for somebody.
Even on previous gen nodes it takes a year or two to bring a chip to full production.
Thats the kind of process issue I hadn't understood. I guess the dynamics here don't make operating a "2nd gen behind" system to make memory economic in the good times, and so nobody is ready to ramp up to meet market shortages in the short term.
EU is paying to build out "lo fi" chips for car and other needs: They decided the impact on domestic industry of supply chain logistics to TSMC was bad. A lot of people are shouting "why aren't they doing extreme UV 1nm chip design" when the decision was pretty simple: its possible to source the machines, it's probably faster to get to high yield, the exposure to supply chain risk is real, the return is hopefully high in strategic terms, you can improve density as a follow-on.
No matter what ASML is doing well.
I work in e-waste recycling. Ever since the TurboQuant paper in March, I haven't been able to sell any DDR3. I'm guessing that the DDR2 and 3 this article is referring to is the actual memory chips, not modules/sticks that servers, desktops, laptops, etc. use, because the latter aren't moving.
Yep. Don't expect to sell those sticks on ebay at great price. Those new chips will be likely soldered to appliances like low end routers/APs, set top boxes, various adapters, low end systems, PLCs, IPBX, NVRs and various embedded devices.
I sold 7,2 Kg of DDR1/2/3 sticks two month ago, for gold recovery. As well as expansion cards, hdd PCBs and a few other things. Got about $600 from this.
Did you cut the gold fingers off or "as-is"
Indeed, I was lucky that my PC is old enough to use DDR3 sticks, when I decided to upgrade a couple months ago. I think it's still cheaper to max out your RAM than to buy a new PC.
Wild guess, but maybe China has something to do with that? They've got a huge "recover->break down/strip->recondition->sell refurbs to manufacturers" industry pipeline that doesn't seem to much exist outside of China.
Maybe you have priced it wrong? I just checked Ebay, a 16GB 12800 Registered ECC module goes for 40-50USD ea. That is crazy! Last year they were like 5 USD each.
Agree. I was buying DDR3 16GB sticks for some laptops at $5/pop on eBay, now $60+ each.
Do you have any links? I remember DDR3 sodimms being maybe $.25-$.50/gb for low capacity (4gb), but 8gb+ sticks were always $.80-1+/gb.
I misremembered, it was $5 for 16GB DDR4 (not DDR3) sticks that I was paying on eBay. That might change the pricing.
That's a great price for either, especially for DDR4. Only one stick though, right?
Except almost nobody buys them, even last years for 10 bucks each. That's almost useless ECC Reg memory for HPE Gen 8 servers and workstations (from before late 2015 / start of 2016 with the introduction of the Gen9 using DDR4).
ECC unbuffered DIMMs (9 memory chips per side, no reg buffer/controller) is less available, quite widely used on level entry systems and thus costs a lot more even second hand.
That’s crazy, I bought a couple trays of DDR3 2 years ago for under $100 each.
The headline made me fear that I will need to shell out a few more bucks for 4164 DRAM chips, but fortunately this does not seem to be the case.
DDR3 is not "retro", for chrissakes.
I was about to say. DDR 2/3 I can still see many use cases for that stuff in modern-ish tech.
I am currently looking for some EDO sticks for a really well preserved IBM Aptiva I found on the side of the road. That stuff is expensive for a very different reason.
There might be some Aptiva EDO RAM sitting in my parents basement... Ill have to look next time im out there. Im not sure if I ripped it out and stored it before we sent the computer off to recycling eons ago.
It was introduced barely 20 years ago. By that rationale the PS3 is a retro console
The PS3 is a retro console.
In 2000 when the PS2 came out was the NES a retro console?
It was 17 years old, or 14 years since wide distribution in the USA.
What counts as "retro" basically comes down to when the person you ask was born.
New NES were still available in the US through at least Christmas 1992, and in Europe deep into 1995, both selling alongside the SNES since 1991.
The final new international games were released in 1994, but Europe still got new games into 1995.
Japanese Famicoms were still being sold in Japan when the PS2 released. They sold more in Japan in 2001 than in 2000.
So no, calling the NES "retro" in 2000 wouldn't have made all too much sense.
yes the ps3 is now considered a retro console.
Added errata, homelabsales ddr4 2133/2400 16/32/64 prices are down from 3 months ago a decent amount.
Still got 4x 128MB PC-133 Mosel-Vitelic. I'll be sooo rich soon!1!!
Does anybody have an understanding of when realistically there will be supply again? I've heard some positive sentiment about new developments in China, but that's not a market I am familiar with, and I haven't witnessed any effects of it thus far.
People act like RAM is thousands of dollars now. I checked prices recently and while it’s pretty high, it’s not that bad for a component you just buy once and use for a long time. I’m still more concerned about the prices and availability of decent GPUs.
2016: OMG I found that old hard drive with bitcoin!
2026: OMG I found that old shoebox of SO-DIMMS!
Lol
Worldwide chip pricing and it's effects on the overall economy are fascinating. I expected by now somebody with a gen -2 class VLSI plant would swing into action and make <thing> for 2/3 the cost of the majors, and clean up in volume as the market absorbs the price shock. But no, instead it suits everyone in the pipeline to whine about it, but mark up prices instead.
I am guessing the other side of this, the price drops will happen but slowly, and just like gas pricing, the profit is in rapid reaction to shortage and slow reaction to competition returning.
Chip pricing a sawtooth would make a LOT of money for somebody.
Even on previous gen nodes it takes a year or two to bring a chip to full production.
Thats the kind of process issue I hadn't understood. I guess the dynamics here don't make operating a "2nd gen behind" system to make memory economic in the good times, and so nobody is ready to ramp up to meet market shortages in the short term.
EU is paying to build out "lo fi" chips for car and other needs: They decided the impact on domestic industry of supply chain logistics to TSMC was bad. A lot of people are shouting "why aren't they doing extreme UV 1nm chip design" when the decision was pretty simple: its possible to source the machines, it's probably faster to get to high yield, the exposure to supply chain risk is real, the return is hopefully high in strategic terms, you can improve density as a follow-on.
No matter what ASML is doing well.
I work in e-waste recycling. Ever since the TurboQuant paper in March, I haven't been able to sell any DDR3. I'm guessing that the DDR2 and 3 this article is referring to is the actual memory chips, not modules/sticks that servers, desktops, laptops, etc. use, because the latter aren't moving.
Yep. Don't expect to sell those sticks on ebay at great price. Those new chips will be likely soldered to appliances like low end routers/APs, set top boxes, various adapters, low end systems, PLCs, IPBX, NVRs and various embedded devices.
I sold 7,2 Kg of DDR1/2/3 sticks two month ago, for gold recovery. As well as expansion cards, hdd PCBs and a few other things. Got about $600 from this.
Did you cut the gold fingers off or "as-is"
Indeed, I was lucky that my PC is old enough to use DDR3 sticks, when I decided to upgrade a couple months ago. I think it's still cheaper to max out your RAM than to buy a new PC.
Wild guess, but maybe China has something to do with that? They've got a huge "recover->break down/strip->recondition->sell refurbs to manufacturers" industry pipeline that doesn't seem to much exist outside of China.
Maybe you have priced it wrong? I just checked Ebay, a 16GB 12800 Registered ECC module goes for 40-50USD ea. That is crazy! Last year they were like 5 USD each.
Agree. I was buying DDR3 16GB sticks for some laptops at $5/pop on eBay, now $60+ each.
Do you have any links? I remember DDR3 sodimms being maybe $.25-$.50/gb for low capacity (4gb), but 8gb+ sticks were always $.80-1+/gb.
I misremembered, it was $5 for 16GB DDR4 (not DDR3) sticks that I was paying on eBay. That might change the pricing.
Here's one I found in my email:
https://imgur.com/a/YWYpuzp
That's a great price for either, especially for DDR4. Only one stick though, right?
Except almost nobody buys them, even last years for 10 bucks each. That's almost useless ECC Reg memory for HPE Gen 8 servers and workstations (from before late 2015 / start of 2016 with the introduction of the Gen9 using DDR4).
ECC unbuffered DIMMs (9 memory chips per side, no reg buffer/controller) is less available, quite widely used on level entry systems and thus costs a lot more even second hand.
That’s crazy, I bought a couple trays of DDR3 2 years ago for under $100 each.
The headline made me fear that I will need to shell out a few more bucks for 4164 DRAM chips, but fortunately this does not seem to be the case.
DDR3 is not "retro", for chrissakes.
I was about to say. DDR 2/3 I can still see many use cases for that stuff in modern-ish tech.
I am currently looking for some EDO sticks for a really well preserved IBM Aptiva I found on the side of the road. That stuff is expensive for a very different reason.
There might be some Aptiva EDO RAM sitting in my parents basement... Ill have to look next time im out there. Im not sure if I ripped it out and stored it before we sent the computer off to recycling eons ago.
It was introduced barely 20 years ago. By that rationale the PS3 is a retro console
The PS3 is a retro console.
In 2000 when the PS2 came out was the NES a retro console?
It was 17 years old, or 14 years since wide distribution in the USA.
What counts as "retro" basically comes down to when the person you ask was born.
New NES were still available in the US through at least Christmas 1992, and in Europe deep into 1995, both selling alongside the SNES since 1991.
The final new international games were released in 1994, but Europe still got new games into 1995.
Japanese Famicoms were still being sold in Japan when the PS2 released. They sold more in Japan in 2001 than in 2000.
So no, calling the NES "retro" in 2000 wouldn't have made all too much sense.
yes the ps3 is now considered a retro console.
Added errata, homelabsales ddr4 2133/2400 16/32/64 prices are down from 3 months ago a decent amount.
Still got 4x 128MB PC-133 Mosel-Vitelic. I'll be sooo rich soon!1!!
Does anybody have an understanding of when realistically there will be supply again? I've heard some positive sentiment about new developments in China, but that's not a market I am familiar with, and I haven't witnessed any effects of it thus far.
People act like RAM is thousands of dollars now. I checked prices recently and while it’s pretty high, it’s not that bad for a component you just buy once and use for a long time. I’m still more concerned about the prices and availability of decent GPUs.
2016: OMG I found that old hard drive with bitcoin! 2026: OMG I found that old shoebox of SO-DIMMS! Lol
It trickles down.
The molten toxic sludge of all the ewaste
[dead]